WINTER 2000

#13


hanging like a
H E X
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FUCK YOU HEROES

GLEN E. FRIEDMAN

by Ryan Canavan


I guess this is a guy who needs no introduction, well on second thought, who says he's a public figure? After all, he named his first photography book "Fuck You Heroes". So with that said, Glen E. Friedman is a man responsible for most every classic punk, hardcore, hip-hop, and skateboarding photo that has been imbedded within the mind of every kid in tune with underground music. From the classic shots of Bad Brains and Minor Threat to Run DMC and LL Cool J, chances are you've seen the guys work at some time or another. On the surface the guy has an eye for art and a knack for catching humans in their most intense element. Underneath it though he is a very engaging individual, almost as much so as his photographs, quick to take a stab at all things social, political and environmental. It's inspiring to see someone who has steadily contributed to punk for so long and still be just as vigilent and staunch as ever, rallying off on the benifits of veganism, DIY business, and even the ills of littering. Over a very long telephone converstaion and an ensuing meeting at a Fugazi show in New York City it was interesting and inspiring event in both cases.

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RYAN: So you didn't go to college for photography?

GLEN: No, not at all. When I was at my first year of college, Santa Monica College, I took photography One just to bring up my GPA, so I could transfer to UCLA. It was Photography 1 and there was only like one person in the class who recognized me. He was like, "what the fuck are you doing here?". I was like, "chill, I got to bring up my GPA!" I never told the teacher that I was published or anything like that.

R: That brings me to something I wanted to gauge your opinion on: the whole self-taught vs. school of art debate. I personally believe that being self-taught can be better because it makes you rely on more of instinct, spontaneity, and your own creativity. But then being taught the rules of art can be helpful insofar as making things look correct or more organized. But then I think some of the creativity becomes lost when rules are applied to your art.

G: I don't believe in art school at all. Unless you want to be a commercial artist there's no reason to go to art school, in my opinion. I think if you're an artist then you have it in you, and you'll figure it out on your own. And to be a good photographer all you need to do is read the manual and know your camera frontwards and backwards. So my advice is to get the simplest camera with the smallest manual, or the least amount to read. You learn the basics.
I took photography once when I was in seventh grade. I got a "D". But I learned it, and I was published six months later, so it didn't make a difference, did it? Back then I took Photography 1, and it was basically the same thing, except I was using a pocket Instamatic, they had just came out. They let me use one in Photography class. The disadvantage of that was that I couldn't change the lenses, but I listened to the lectures, and would learn what different lenses did. And all I had to know in 1975 was what a fisheye lens was because that's what I wanted to use. That was the cool thing for skateboarding.

You have to learn the basics, and if it's through a class in school that's OK. I took Photography 1 [the second time] after I had already been published for five, six, or seven years, and the teacher was teaching things that were basically wrong. It was bogus. People would come up to me after class to ask me questions. Though many of them didn't know who I was they could tell by the questions I asked in class that I knew what was going on. I would basically ask him questions to embarrass him sometimes because I thought he was really teaching things poorly.

But if you have it in you, you have it in you. But I think you should go to regular school, get your bachelor of arts degree, learn everything, and then be an artist. I believe in being a well-rounded person, so I think it's good to have all that. I mean, I don't necessarily think you have to have a degree. I think you should go to school and take all the classes that interest you, and then go and do what you want to do. College is a lot of bullshit. Most people are doing it just so they can get a piece of paper. Go there and just learn what you need to. If you need to learn art theory, if you need to learn how to mix paints, and things like that in order to be a good painter, to be a sculptor, then that's what you need to do. I think it's just much better to learn on your own. To tell you the truth, to this day, half the time I shoot film I don't know if it's going to come out or not. It's a learning experience all the time. I just have confidence that I have a good eye. I just trust it implicitly. And I hope my equipment follows behind me. With all the problems I've had in my life with equipment breaking and that sort of thing I never know for sure if anything's ever going to work, and I just have to keep my fingers crossed until I get the photos back I'm always worried.

R: Well, it's worked so far.

G: I don't like to tell people that because, even though I have total confidence in my abilities and I'm probably one of the greatest photographers there is, things like if the film doesn't work or my camera doesn't work- how am I to know? So I never promise anyone anything.

R: So when you took that class you were already recognized?

G: Yeah, but it was only one kid, and he was a skateboarder.

R: So it was probably around when you worked for Thrasher?

G: Exactly. I worked for SkateBoarder in the beginning. People tend to think that I worked for Thrasher first, but I actually worked for SkateBoarder for many years before that. Thrasher was a reaction to SkateBoarder turning into Action Now, and a selfish manufacturer, (who is probably one of the most egomaniacal assholes I've ever met) decided to start his own magazine because he wasn't getting enough coverage in Action Now. But the sport couldn't support a whole magazine dedicated to just that at the time, so that's why Action Now had other things like motor cross and bikes, and music. It was hard enough to support a single sport like skateboarding in a whole magazine. So this selfish loser comes along and starts up Thrasher, and he owned Independent Trucks, so there was always some Independent skater on the cover. It had an extreme bias, and it still does to this day. But I worked for them because for awhile they were the only ones around, and I loved skateboarding, and I got along real well with the editor. So it wasn't a problem, even though I didn't get along with the publisher, who was a real jerk. He's just as big a jerk now as he was fifteen or twenty years ago. (big laughs)

But that was all while I was at school, and at that point I hadn't done any music photography yet. But school was where I met Mike Muir because I had known his brother for years, so that's where we met. But he had a demo that I liked a lot and we went from there.

R: Seeing as how you cut into Thrasher, which at this point is a pretty big magazine it seems like you have a pretty strong stance against much of corporate America still. But many of these places who you've worked for, such as Thrasher and Def jam, have now become quite large businesses and are now a part of corporate America.
Does it ever upset you to see these places that were once independent businesses now become corporate institutions, especially since you have friends running them?

G: Well, the thing is it's less them, and more me. I've also grown more, and learned more things about businesses and corporations that I didn't know before. I was being published for six or seven years before I read Marx. So a lot of things I didn't understand. Not until I got involved with punk rock. I was into it by '78, but I didn't start reading a lot until '81. I started learning about politics more when I got out of school. And once I started taking college courses that I was interested in, not anything that had to do with a major, that's when I started learning more, and my life started changing. And punk rock changed my life a lot too. It made me more politically aware. Here punk rock wasn't about anarchy right away, like it was in the UK. Here, it was more about personal freedom and identity, and individuality, and personal politics. But actually, as the years went on I got more involved in literal politics, like politics of government. I studied political science and I was motivated to change things from the inside. I don't know how far off the subject I am here, but at different points in your life you learn different things. And now, sure, working for Def Jam, or working for Thrasher I appreciate the things that they are doing. If an artist is on Sony, like Rage Against the Machine, or if they're on Dischord it doesn't matter in a way. If I think someone is doing something worthy then I will help them out with my photography. It doesn't matter where they are. And if a friend of mine asks me to help out another friends band I'd probably do it. Like, if Rick Rubin asked me to take pictures of one of his bands, or Russell Simmons asked the same for a band I didn't really like, I'll do it (maybe). But usually that work doesn't look as good because I'm not motivated on a personal level. I need to make a living too. I'll do those jobs if a friend is involved, even if it's for a major label. I generally don't. I do it very, very rarely. The way I rationalize it is that if you believe in the person then you help them out, and you trust them enough, and that's their way of doing things. I would much rather work for Fugazi more than anyone else. But not everyone is Ian, Guy, Brenden, and Joe. I love those guys, but you can't always do that, and I'm almost getting sick of shooting them. But I always do because they inspire me so much! ...When I take pictures I want people to see them too.

R: And that's probably for fun more than anything, right?

G: Yeah, it's great to take the pictures, but I want to also show other people what this band is all about. But then again, you may take the great picture, and the band doesn't want to use them, and it's sort of frustrating. Sometimes the band doesn't have the same taste as you, and you sort of have to take the judgment of the band.

Then you take someone from the opposite end of the spectrum, like the Beastie Boys, who are on Capitol. Or Rage Against the Machine, who are on Sony. It's like, "what do you do?" You think about it, and you like it, it's art, you want to help them out, and you do. But if someone is in SPIN magazine, or Details magazine, do you want to help them out? If it's your friends band then yeah, I'd go ahead and do it. Or if they want me to contribute some old photos or something then I'll do it because it's historical and important. And I like to think that a lot of the stuff I've shot is important, and I like the idea of educating others about something that is important.

But will I take money from some bullshit, or other really fucked-up, lame, crap, 99% of-every-other-magazine out there to work for them and take assignments? Fuck no! Look at them! They all have an "Absolute" ad on the back, the "Marlboro" Man on the front, a few pages on the inside. They're taking all this money from these corporations and all they're trying to do is fill space between the ads. It's pathetic how many fucking magazines there are. It's pathetic how much advertising there is, and how they have nothing to say in-between the ads. Maybe you'll find one good article in every magazine. The magazines I occasionally look at I think they should only come out once a year, not once a month.

R: You don't need it that much.

G: Yeah! It's such an overload of bullshit. Come on already. Give us some quality. You can tell they don't care! Putting out a magazine is hard to do every month.

R: Oh, I know. I only manage it about two or three times a year.

G: Super X magazine is the only magazine that I'm staff on and that only comes out twice a year, if that. They just do it when they're ready

R: Taking a look at the underground music scene which you were responsible for photographing, your peers if you will, I think it's cool that over this time, compared to a lot of those people your politics are still in tact, if not more so than before.
Obviously, some of these peers still stick to what they believe in in quite strongly. Ya know, Ian McKaye does, Chuck D. still does. But a lot of these people from the other bands have changed a lot, and I wonder if that has ever changed your relationship with any of these people?

G: I think everyone when they get old mellows out a lot. Even the people with the most extreme stances don't argue as much, and they're smarter than me. I think a lot of those people deserve credit because they are confronted moreso than I am, because they're sort of famous stars, and I'm just a photographer. I'm sort of in the background. More and more people recognize me, sometimes at shows when I'm shooting pictures. And afterwards they'll come up to me instead of the band and ask me questions. It's sort of embarrassing and kind of crazy. But these people, I think, have more pressures on them, and they have to deal with people in such a way that you get beat into the ground. It's kind of hard to keep arguing all the time. I'm just generalizing, but I do have some people who are my friends who are very adamant about their politics, but they don't argue as much as they used to. They didn't give up, but they don't offer their opinion as much as they used to. Especially me, still saying I'm straightedge. That's pretty crazy some people think. But I think, 'Why Shouldn't I ?' I think I have to. I think it's pretty important, and I think it's a good thing!

R: oh yeah, I only can think of a handful of people over thirty who still call themselves straightedge, and half of them live here in Syracuse.

G: Yeah, and I think it's important to tell people that. I mean, how kids do i bump into who are in their early twenties who say they used to be straightedge? what the fuck? What does that mean? now that it's legal to drink you do it? Straightedge while it's illegal?

R:True till twenty-one.

G: What did you say? True till twenty-one? is that a song or something?

R: No, It's a funny phrase, you know, true til legal drinking age.

G: Like when you have a choice. It's kind of pathetic I think. I think drugs and alcohol are totally pathetic, and I don't appreciate them in any way, in any of my friends, and I let them know every time they do them.

R: So I take it you're still very, very into argument.

G: yeah, I argue a real lot. I like to argue though. But I don't like to argue with someone who is drunk, or who's an asshole who is trying to pull my strings. I don't like someone who is trying to take advantage because that's disrespectful and that's rude. I'm trying to have conversation, and this person's trying to play a joke on me, and I don't want to waste my breath. I'll talk to anybody who is into a good, valid discussion.

That's why I can sympathize with some of my friends who are in bands who have been pulled back a little. They're a bit famous, or sort of rock stars, and it really could get on you. And it gets to me sometimes too. But then I think, "well, at least I'm not so-and-so, imagine what it�s like for them". But I do put myself into it though quite often, and I get into some serious arguments, I get pretty aggressive. I think people should voice their opinion as long as they can, as long as they are comfortable doing it. And if they believe very strongly about what they have to say then they should do it. People do not fucking talk! When I have the chance to, whether it's to a fanzine, or MTV, or whoever, you have to say what you believe. There's so many assholes who give their opinion who don't believe in anything. Look at the people who go on MTV- bands we know, and people we used to have respect for, and we still like what they do musically, but they go on there and they act all ironic. But the irony is they're fucking jerking you! They're getting paid off of you. You think you're making fun of them, but they're the ones making fun of you, making fun of them! In the end their the one making the money, their the one selling the advertising, and you're the one giving them the attention. It doesn't matter what you do, you're there. You know what I mean? So if you're going to be there make the most of it- don't be an idiot. That's how I feel.

I think Rage Against the Machine takes full good advantage of their time on MTV, and others don't. No one else does really. It�s almost an embarrassment how people handle themselves on TV. They think they're being funny, it just gets on my nerves.

But on the same note, not everyone is as motivated. Not everyone has as strong of beliefs as I do, or Rage does. But it alienates you to have those beliefs, people marginalize you, people think your crazy when you speak out, or have a strong opinion. The school system, the government, teachers, psychologists, and everyone tries to shut you up when you have a different opinion.

True, maybe not everyone should speak up when they have the chance to because not everyone researches before they open their fucking mouth. But if you've done the reading, and if you've done some research, and you have some knowledge, and you really do know what you're talking about I think it's your responsibility to speak up. But if you're an idiot, and don't know what you're talking about, I think it's your responsibility to shut up. But I wish more people would research more, so they would discuss things more, and not just get high, or sit back and take it all in and be apathetic.

R: That brings me to something I saw on the internet I saw linked somewhere concerning your letter to Tony Hawk about his sponsorship from the Diary Council. And he basically didn't have anything to say back.

G: I gave him a bunch of information on the horrible aspects of the dairy industry, and he said, "Well, I like milk. Those are my beliefs". He probably rationalized those things to himself that he didn't want to think about them. I literally hadn't seen the kid in fifteen years, and I probably was the first person to get a photo of him out to the public, and I remember him at the first pro contest he was at where he wasn't a pro. And that kid ripped and I knew he was going to be huge. He was a good nice kid, his father was there to bring him to the event. It was like a Little League dad thing. And his father was much older, and very conservative. They were in one of those Skateboard Association things. They wanted skateboarding to be a little league thing. So they did what they did. His dad was a nice guy. He may have hated my politics and punk rock, but it was a father and son thing. So that was nice.

But it's kind of sad that people don't want to know. Very often I talk to people about vegetarianism, or the little things they can do to make the world better, and they think, "I can't do anything". Yeah, they're one person, but a lot of one's add up to something. And if people don't believe that then that's the way they were taught, and they just have no hope anymore, and that's such a sad situation.

Tony Hawk probably just wanted more publicity. He probably got paid a decent amount. I hope he didn't do it just for the money. I think a lot of people do it because they think milk is a good thing for everybody, but it isn't. And he probably wanted the publicity because it sort of raises one to a certain stature, like on a level with all the other famous people who have done it. In the meantime they put glue on their upper lip, and they do these stupid fucking advertisements, and are not aware that it poisons and kills people.

It is my belief that everyone is born lactose-intolerant. I never knew a baby that only drank mother's milk and vomited as much as a baby who started drinking cow's milk. As soon as you start drinking cow's milk you begin puking all the time, and eventually you get used to it because you need something to survive. A lot of people don't need it as much and that's why many Asian and African people are lactose-intolerant because they aren't raised that way, they're not used to sucking on the tit of a cow. A baby calf doubles it's weight every six months. Do I want to do that? I see all these teenagers walking around and they're all fat. It's disgusting. I'm not against fat people, but I'm against people who don't take responsibility for their own lives. Some say it's in the genes. No, it's in what's at the dinner table. You say your fat because your mom's fat? No, it's because she eats the same food as you. She cooks for you you dumb shit! I'm sure there's some genetics there, but it's mostly in what you eat I believe. Because when you travel around the world there aren't as many fat people as there are in the United States, and kids aren't all puffy like they are here.

R: Just out of curiosity, where did you pick up on veganism?

G: It was probably in 1982 or '83 that I got into vegetarianism. I've been a vegan now for about ten years. When I started that there was about one place for me to eat. Now it's all over the place. But I first got into vegetarianism from Shawn Stern, who runs BYO. He was handing out pamphlets and literature. But the number one reason why I became vegan was because of how it affects the environment. The environment is my main motivation, then my own health, then the animals. I used to not think a lot about the whole animal aspect, but I've grown to appreciate it more in the last six years or so.

R: Actually, here it was huge about four years ago. We were getting on the news because of it and all that. There was a lot of protest activity going on, a lot of demonstrations, and that sort of thing. It has settled down a bit. I mean, it's still a big thing here, but there isn't as much activity as before. And that's OK because at least people are still into the ideas and the practice.

G: Over the years I've learned that everyone does it in their own time. I used to be aggressive as hell about it and give people constant shit. I always made them feel guilty for every bite they took, and I still do that to some of my friends who should know better, or are just totally belligerent with their health or the environment. They go and drop some litter and I say, 'what the fuck do you think you�re doing?' They drop a gum wrapper, or a cigarette butt and I say, 'your a fucking pig! Didn't you ever see the Litter Bug, or the Indian with the tear running down his face?' I just get so mad when people litter.

But I saw John Robbins speak, and he said to just give people their own time when it comes to vegetarianism. And he's one of the main motivators to me, and I guess most vegetarians. When "Diet For a New America" came out, I mean, that's the book. So when he said that I thought he'd be one of these Gary Null type guys, like a real extremist where it's like you have to be vegan or else you're going to die. But he was really relaxed about it. It was cool. But I like being aggressive, and I want people to change. But I know that sometimes I am too aggressive, but you can't shove it down their throats. But other times you realize that as long as someone knows, and you educate them, that's all you can do. And when people are ready they'll do it. And I still take it upon myself to expose people to do it by asking questions. I'll tell them, but they better be ready because I'll unload a whole book of knowledge on them.

R: What bands have you been taking pictures of lately because it seems like a lot less now.

G: Yeah, I almost don't take pictures of bands at all anymore. It got pretty boring. Even when they're exciting it's sometimes boring for me because I see other people taking pictures, and I don't want to take pictures when other people are. And I really don't like taking pictures when others are watching me take pictures. And nowadays when I'm at a gig people will recognize me, and watch me taking pictures.

R: They'll take pictures of you taking pictures.

G: (laughs) Not that far. But it's weird. I like to give other people a chance. I'm also not as motivated. But I know a lot of people aren't getting the right shots, so I have to go out there and do my thing sometimes.

But I don't go to see bands as much, number one, because not bands excites me as much. Nowadays, I have to hear a tape or cd before I go se a band. Or I have to have a friend tell me that I trust that I have to see this band. Otherwise, I don�t want to go out to some smoky club where a shitty band plays that everyone tells me is great when they aren't, that have nothing to say anyway. Or the bands that have too much to say that should not be playing music, but sitting home writing books. Because so many of the hardcore bands I've seen in the last eight years suck shit. They're such a bore, and it's pathetic. It's like they never listened to Minor Threat, or TSOL, or the Adolescents, or Black Flag. It's like, 'what are you doing man? There's supposed to be some melody up in here'. All you're doing is trying to play as fast as possible and you sound like shit. Your lyrics aren't saying anything new that I haven't heard before, you have no charisma, and you're just whack!

Some of my friends who are as old as I am still go out to see bands and appreciate them, and I just don't. I like some, and am sometimes pleasantly surprised. I can't remember the last time I was, but I'm sure it was in last year or two.

I love to see Fugazi, I'll always go see them. I love to see the make-Up. I'll go see them in any fucked-up club. I liked that band Barkmarket. I saw them open for Slayer and I was like the only person there for them. Everyone 'booed' them, but they were fucking rocking. I saw that band System Of A Down for Rick Rubin, because they are on his label, and they were pretty good for that genre of music. I worked that as a job, so it was sort of fun.

Plus, there's always good hip-hop singles, but no good hip-hop albums anymore. I can't remember the last time there was a good hip-hop album.

R: I think that's why I got out of it as much as I did.

G: Yeah, the radio is actually probably the best way to listen to hip-hop anymore. It's all the single of the moment. That and the mix shows. There's not one artist that is that strong. I mean, I think Snoop Dog has more charisma than anyone I have seen in my entire life. Redman is really cool. But their records are still very hit or miss. It's always a 50/50 chance that it's going to be boring.

R: What's the most dangerous situation you've found yourself taking pictures in?

G: The King Tee photos taken in the alley behind his house in "Fuck You Too" were pretty hairy. There's been so many different situations, and you never really know where you're threatened the most, even if someone's shooting guns. But maybe they�re just shooting them for fun. You never can tell. I've definitely been in some threatening situations, and I'll probably take less chances now than I would when I was younger. Even a year ago, because you learn from certain experiences, and you realize you don't want to put yourself in that position anymore. It's not worth the risk! Why risk your life? I'll risk my life for some things, but not for the sake of just taking a picture. In skating, and even in punk rock there were times. Like at skateboard sessions when the police would chace us. Or when mad, angry owners of swimming pools would chace us with a chainsaw. You know now, being older, that they probably weren't going to use it on you, but it sure felt like they were. Or being chaced with a baseball bat, or having shotguns pointed at you, that shit would happen. And then with the police, geez. I've been dragged off stage by my camera by the police at Black Flag at Bace's Hall. One night I was running from the police, and it turns out that these guys had just robbed someone's car, and I stopped when I realized it wasn't the police, and I got hit in the face with a baseball bat by some other gang kids. And the hip-hop situations where I've been in bad neighborhoods, and shady circumstances where all these guns get pulled out to show off for the photos. I mean, I won't shoot photos ever again with guns in them because when I was doing that sort of thing I thought it was a really important thing to express that because it was that person's reality. But I realized over the years that you're telling a story, but then all of a sudden you're glamorizing it. And I never intended to glamorize it. I just wanted to share a story, and show a reality. But after I took pictures for South Central Cartel I saw "Menace II Society" about a week later, and it made me realize what a fucking idiot I was for shooting pictures with all these guns in them. So I just vowed never to do it again.

Like putting a gun in a photo is really a cop-out because a picture of a gun is like having a photo of a naked person. It achieves a look, or it gives it a certain strength, and even now it's lost all it's energy to me. But it's such a bold instrument, it has this strength to it, it could kill a human being so easily. I thought it was important when I did it, but after South Central Cartel I realized I went a little too far. I don't regret doing it, but I don't want to do it anymore.



All the people I shot with guns weren't faking it. It was a part of their life. It was their reality. We didn't have to go rent guns. All we had to do was go to a closet, or the trunk of a car to get them. And one day when we shot pictures for King Tee that were never published the idea was to get as many guns as possible for this one shot. And we got so many guns in ten minutes it was ridiculous. I mean, one guy had an AK-47 in the trunk of his car! We shot these pictures on the side of Ice-T's apartment in West Hollywood and this one guy had a Mac-10. It was insane. It was kind of crazy.ked woman on a beach, or a bicycle in Tokyo, Japan it just looks so incredibly cool- that's what keeps me motivated. That beauty gives you reasons to want to keep the planet to be here longer. Every single page is meant to work together in that book so that it shows a reality and an image. The pictures of the empty chairs in Hiroshima say one thing, and the man walking down the alley says another. I find beauty in all things in some way or another.

Just look at all the phot books out there- they fucking suck. So many photo books, and so many photographers suck so hard that it's almost difficult for me to imagine that these books are even published. And I think "The Idealist" is a great fucking book at the same time. There's fucking suck, and mine is great!

R: (laughs) Well, at least your honest.

G: It's not about honesty, modesty, or being conceited. It's not any of those things. It's just my reality. I'm far from perfect, but my pictures are pretty close to it. But it's a really great book, and incredibly beautiful. I can't think of a book that has as good a range of pictures, and is as well laid out as that book. There's a couple of good books out there, but most of them suck. It's sort of a shame that they get published and sell more than mine. But I guess that has to do with the fact that I self-publish them, and my friends at Consafos distribute them. It's even hard to get a show for "The Idealist". Though "Fuck You All" has been all over the world. I don't really pursue it though unless the "Fuck You" show has been through a city. Tentatively, there is supposed to be an opening in Sydney, Australia.

R: You'd think that you'd be able to get a show for it in a city where you have close ties though, like New York or LA.

G: Well, "Fuck You All" can be shown anywhere, but "The Idealist" is a very different show where I want a nice setting. It's a very big show where there's about fifty prints, some of which are very big, and all nicely framed. It's a very high quality show, and I wouldn't want it anywhere that wasn't just as high quality as the art itself. I want them to be in a respectable place. If I can't have it in a nice place then I don't want it anywhere at all. I have to be demanding about that.

I think the two best photo books I have ever seen have come out in the last year. One is called "Water, Light, Time", and the other is called "Full Moon". And I think I like them both so much because they were both composed of photos from places where I have never been and will never be. "Water, Light, Time" was taken all underwater with one of those special underwater cameras, and "Full Moon" is all shots from the Apollo moon landing. I mean, I don't go scuba diving, and I'll never go to the moon, so I found those two very exciting and interesting.

R: So, in essence, would you say a picture could be worth a thousand words?

G: Oh sure. I know it is every day. I know it could be worth more than a thousand words. There's no doubt. But it depends on the picture. There's so many people taking bad pictures, and so many people writing bad words. Sometimes a picture isn't worth a word, and some thousand words aren't worth anything. It really depends on the quality of each.

But again, getting back to the media, and the magazines, and television, and the internet, and the oversaturation in the media for the need to fill space between corporate advertisers has really brought a lull in the creativity and the quality of work we see exposed to the world today in all these mediums. It really disgusts me, and makes me sad to see all this wasted energy and environmental waste that goes into making these magazines and books, and useless drivel. It's recycles nothingness. It's all been said before, but there's a certain spin, and a certain way to do things, and people just don't take the time anymore.

But ya know, you go to a show to take some pictures and you try to get a good shot. Say, for instance, you see Fugazi. You're going to get a good shot. Especially if you're using like ten rolls. But if you're like me you bring one roll. Then you know you only have thirty-six chances. Then it's really limited, and you have to take your time. Just take your time. I have to make it count.

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